Virginia Counseling Degrees & Licenses

“Virginia’s mental health counselors work in an increasingly in-demand but heavily under-resourced field. According to NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness), 1,115,000 adults in Virginia have a mental health condition, and many aren’t getting the help that they need due to barriers such as cost or a lack of mental health counselors in reasonable proximity.”

Ryan Culkin, LPC, MBA, Chief Counseling Officer at Thriveworks

According to the Virginia Board of Counseling, there are two avenues for licensure as a Professional Counselor in Virginia. Students must either be licensed by the endorsement of having equivalent licensure in another jurisdiction or by passing the examination to receive their professional counseling license if they have never held a professional counseling license. 

The first step is choosing the right educational program. To become an LPC in Virginia, your degree must be from a CACREP- or CORE-accredited school or program. The Council for Accreditation of Counseling & Related Educational Programs and the Council on Rehabilitation Education merged in 2017, and many school websites also still reference CORE accreditation. 

Additionally, the regulations require potential licensees to complete 60 graduate semester-hours (or 90 graduate quarter-hours) of schooling, a 3,400-hour post-master’s clinical residency, including 2,000 hours of face-to-face client contact, and successful completion of the licensure examination.

The Virginia Board of Counselors also licenses counselors such as substance abuse counselors. In 2016, Virginia’s governor declared Virginia’s opioid abuse crisis a Public Health Emergency. To become licensed as a Licensed Substance Abuse Treatment Practitioner (LSATP), Virginia requires that students have two years of post-licensure clinical practice in the substance abuse treatment field, or a current substance abuse treatment license from another jurisdiction, or a 60-semester-hour master’s degree in mental health. 

Whether students are seeking licensure in Virginia for the first time or are planning to relocate to Virginia, working in mental health in Virginia can be a rewarding career. Read on for a few of the many schools offering programs for counseling degrees and licenses in Virginia.

New York University
Grand Canyon University
Walden University

Meet the Expert: Ryan Culkin, LPC, MBA

Ryan Culkin is the chief counseling officer at Thriveworks, overseeing operations and ensuring clinical excellence for talk therapy services. With over a decade of experience as a child and adolescent counselor, Culkin deeply understands the rapidly evolving mental health field. He is dedicated to equipping clinicians with the tools and skills they need to deliver the highest standard of care.

Having personally experienced the challenges of burnout, Culkin is passionate about creating a supportive culture that allows clinicians to thrive without being overwhelmed by the demands of their roles. He works closely with the executive team to implement strategic initiatives, shape future objectives, and ensure the success of both clinicians and clients. He is a licensed professional counselor in Virginia and holds an MBA from the University of Virginia Darden School of Business.

Counseling Schools.com: What do you wish the public understood about mental health counselors in Virginia?

Culkin: Virginia’s mental health counselors work in an increasingly in-demand but heavily under-resourced field. According to NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness), 1,115,000 adults in Virginia have a mental health condition, and many aren’t getting the help that they need due to barriers such as cost or a lack of mental health counselors in reasonable proximity.

According to the Virginia Health Care Foundation, 93 of Virginia’s 133 localities have been designated by the Federal Government as Mental Health Professional Shortage Areas, with over a third of Virginians living in them.

People get into this field because they want to make a difference in people’s lives and ease these barriers to care, but it’s not always easy. We definitely need more education incentives and clearer career pathways for Virginians interested in this line of work.

Counseling Schools.com: What advice would you give to aspiring mental health counseling students in Virginia?

Culkin: Spend as much time as you can researching and connecting with others in this field before embarking on study so you are sure it’s what you want to do and you have an idea of the type of service you may see yourself in long-term, such as community-based, residential, or group practice. Getting clear on your reasons for wanting to become a mental health counselor will help point you in the right direction.

Consider what other areas might complement your education. If you want to focus on a niche stream, such as music therapy, you may want to major in the arts. Or, if you’re looking to open a private practice, investigate what other courses, such as business operations and marketing, may be beneficial to your success.

Accredited Counseling Degree Programs in Virginia

University of Virginia

The University of Virginia provides an in-person, 61-credit master of education in counseling program for aspiring school counselors. This program is available with a school mental health emphasis.

The MEd features courses such as lifespan development, professional orientation and ethics in counseling, an introduction to career interventions, appraisal and assessment in school counseling, theories and techniques of counseling, and counseling children and adolescents, among others.

The university also offers an EdS in school psychology, an MEd in educational psychology, and EdD in counselor education, and PhD in clinical psychology. 

  • Location: Charlottesville, Virginia 
  • Duration: Two years
  • Accreditation: Council for Accreditation of Counseling and Related Educational Programs (CACREP)

William & Mary – College of Education

Chartered in 1693, William & Mary is the country’s second-oldest institute of higher learning. They offer several counseling programs, including on-campus master of education degrees in school counseling and a clinical mental health counseling degree with optional specializations in addictions counseling, couples, marriage, and family counseling, as well as military and veteran counseling. The MEd is in clinical mental health counseling (CMHC).

Online counseling programs are also available for clinical mental health counseling, with a military and veterans counseling specialization option, as well as school counseling.

The CMHC program’s addictions concentration prepares students to work in public or private human services agencies. A military and veterans counseling concentration prepares students to meet the health needs of active-duty military personnel and veterans. The concentration of couples, marriage, and family counseling focuses on working within the frameworks of relationships and families and tackling many challenges within those contexts.

  • Location: Williamsburg, Virginia 
  • Duration: 60 credits, two years full-time, three years part-time 
  • Accreditation: CACREP

Hampton University – School of Liberal Arts Education

Hampton University offers master’s-level concentrations in school counseling, student affairs/college student development, community mental health counseling, addictions counseling, and pastoral counseling.

The master of arts in general counseling concentration is offered on campus and online; however, it does not meet Virginia requirements for Licensed Professional Counselor education. This overview of courses is meant to provide foundational curriculum for graduates and may instead be used for certification in Virginia as a Qualified Mental Health Provider. 

School counseling and student affairs/college student development are master of arts (MA) degrees that prepare students to work in a school setting. The master of arts in community mental health counseling prepares students to work in community agencies such as youth service agencies, career training programs, correctional institutions, and community counseling settings. The master of arts in pastoral counseling builds spiritual leaders with counseling skills and a non-denominational focus. 

  • Location: Hampton, Virginia 
  • Duration: The MA in general counseling is 30 credits, 16 weeks
  • Accreditation: CACREP

James Madison University – Department of Graduate Psychology

James Madison University’s school counseling master’s in education degree can be completed in three calendar years if students begin their coursework in the summer. Students can also pursue the clinical mental health counseling program, which confers both the master of arts and the educational specialist degrees after three years and 60 credits. 

JMU offers small, experiential classes that rarely involve more than ten students. Upon graduation from the CMHC program, students can pursue licensure in Virginia as a Licensed Professional Counselor. 

  • Location: Harrisonburg, Virginia
  • Duration: Three years for all programs
  • Accreditation: CACREP

Liberty University – Department of Counselor Education

Liberty University offers a 60-credit master’s of arts in clinical mental health counseling or marriage and family counseling. The clinical mental health counseling degree is available in-person or online, while the marriage and family counseling degree is in-person only.

The residential CMHC program provides students with a biblical basis for counseling leadership, as Liberty University is a Christian university. Liberty’s master of arts in marriage and family counseling degree is designed to meet Virginia’s requirements for licensure as a marriage and family therapist (MFT).

  • Location: Lynchburg, Virginia
  • Duration: 60 credits (three years)
  • Accreditation: CACREP

Old Dominion University – Darden College of Education & Professional Studies

Students in Old Dominion’s clinical mental health counseling program can travel abroad to Italy and Ireland for select classes. Students in good standing can take the national counselor licensing exam before graduating. These courses are not offered online but in late afternoons and evenings to allow students with responsibilities during the day to participate as much as possible.

Two specializations, clinical mental health counseling and school counseling, are available in the program. School counseling students who wish to become Licensed Professional Counselors (LPCs) in Virginia may take three additional courses to achieve this license. Students in both tracks take foundational counseling courses, then five school counseling courses and 600 hours of internship.

  • Location: Norfolk, Virginia
  • Duration: 60 credits, full- or part-time
  • Accreditation: CACREP

Radford University – College of Graduate Studies and Research

Radford University’s counseling program emphasizes clinical experience and provides significant opportunities for students to engage in learning in clinical practice. Students can earn a master of science (MS) degree in either school counseling or clinical mental health. While earning their degree, they will also learn how to work in elementary, middle, and secondary school settings or with colleges, counseling centers, agencies, or mental health clinics. 

Radford prides itself on its high rate of students passing examinations and finding jobs post-graduation: 97 percent of students at Radford pass their licensure or certification exams, and 95 percent of counselor education students find jobs after graduation. 

  • Location: Radford, Virginia
  • Duration: 60 credits
  • Accreditation: CACREP

Regent University

Regent University is one of the country’s top-ranking Christian universities. The school, founded by Pat Robertson, offers four counselor education programs: school counseling, clinical mental health counseling, pastoral counseling, and marriage, couple, and family counseling. The pastoral counseling focus is only offered online, while the other three tracks can be completed online or on campus with residency.

Two weeklong residencies provide networking and mentoring opportunities for students. Waiving residency requirements will not be considered, but the requirements may also be met online. Regent’s master of arts in pastoral counseling is only 30 credits. All courses are taught from a Christian worldview.

  • Location: Virginia Beach, Virginia 
  • Duration: 60 credits, 30 credits (pastoral counseling); students may select from one of three progressions
  • Accreditation: CACREP

Virginia Commonwealth University

The Department of Rehabilitation Counseling at Virginia Commonwealth offers graduate degrees at the master’s and doctoral levels. Students can earn a master of science degree in rehabilitation and mental health counseling, which allows them to become both certified rehabilitation counselors and licensed professional counselors. Students can specialize in an area of interest, such as professional counseling or certified rehabilitation counseling.

The School of Education offers a master of education in general counseling for students who want to specialize in college counseling and student affairs, couples and family counseling, or school counseling. Both programs prepare graduates for the Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC) credential in Virginia, and the rehabilitation degree will also qualify graduates for the Certified Rehabilitation Counselor (CRC) national credential. 

  • Location: Richmond, Virginia
  • Duration: 60 credits
  • Accreditation: CACREP

Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University – College of Liberal Arts and Human Sciences

Virginia Polytechnic offers two master of arts in education counseling options: school counseling and clinical mental health counseling. The master of arts in general counselor education is offered on campus at the Roanoke, Virginia, location. Students in either program complete 60 hours of graduate-level training over two years of full-time studies. The practicum provides an opportunity to translate classroom learning into real experience. 

A year-long internship is an opportunity to work in a real career setting and apply all that’s been learned. Once completed, students will have met all of the educational requirements for licensure as a professional counselor in Virginia. 

  • Location: Roanoke, Virginia
  • Duration: 60 credits (two years full-time)
  • Accreditation: CACREP

South University

South University, established in 1899 in Savannah, Georgia, has several campuses. In Virginia, its campuses are located in Glen Allen (Richmond) and Virginia Beach. The Virginia Beach campus is at the heart of one of the nation’s largest military and veteran populations. At either campus, students can attend the clinical mental health counseling program. 

Classes generally meet each Saturday and on weeknights, allowing students to continue with other daily responsibilities. The program is designed for students to complete the curriculum in eight quarters. Each quarter, classes will be held every week for a ten-week period, with the 11th week designated for final exams. 

Most classes at South University are 4.5 credits rather than three, and coursework is designed to meet licensing requirements in Virginia and other states as well. For instance, the 91-credit Virginia program also meets current licensure requirements for counseling programs in Texas and Georgia. 

  • Location: Richmond and Virginia Beach, Virginia
  • Duration: 91 credits (8 quarters)
  • Accreditation: CACREP

How Much Do Counselors Make in Virginia?

These numbers represent data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics from May 2023—the latest data available as of September 2024.

Marriage and Family Therapists

United StatesVirginia
Number employed63,340960
Average annual salary (mean)$68,730$76,480
10th percentile$39,090$39,590
50th percentile (median)$58,510$57,940
90th percentile$104,710$129,620

Substance Abuse, Behavioral Disorder, and Mental Health Counselors

United StatesVirginia
Number employed397,88015,720
Average annual salary (mean)$60,080$58,610
10th percentile$36,700$38,430
50th percentile (median)$53,710$54,590
90th percentile$89,920$80,150

Educational, Guidance, and Career Counselors and Advisors

United StatesVirginia
Number employed327,6608,040
Average annual salary (mean)$66,990$65,470
10th percentile$40,140$42,350
50th percentile (median)$61,710$61,930
90th percentile$100,050$95,140

Rehabilitation Counselors

United StatesVirginia
Number employed84,7502,340
Average annual salary (mean)$48,430$48,980
10th percentile$31,390$29,420
50th percentile (median)$44,040$43,960
90th percentile$73,710$74,200

Counseling Professional Associations & Resources in Virginia

  • Virginia Counselors Association (VCA)
  • Virginia Association of Clinical Counselors (VACC)
  • Virginia School Counselor Association (VSCA)
  • Northern Virginia Licensed Professional Counselors (NVLPC)
  • Virginia Board of Counseling
  • Virginia Counselors Association Foundation (VCAF)
  • The Counseling Alliance of Virginia (CAVA)
  • The Virginia Association of Genetic Counselors (VAAGC)
  • Virginia Association of Housing Counselors
  • Virginia Peers Speaking Up for Mental Health Recovery
  • National Counseling Group Virginia (NGC)
  • Postpartum Support Virginia
  • Counseling Services of Commonwealth Catholic Charities

Mental Health Counseling (LMHC) Licenses in Virginia: Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC)

Licensing AuthorityEligibility & DetailsRenewal Requirements
Virginia Board of Counseling

Mental health counselors in Vermont are licensed as Licensed Professional Counselors (LPCs) or Licensed Professional Counselor – Residents (LPC Residents).

LPC Resident license candidates must:

  • Graduate from a CACREP or CORE accredited master’s in counseling program. If the program has neither accreditation, it must be regionally accredited and contain 13 core content areas. All programs must contain a minimum of 60 semester-credits (or 90 quarter-credits) and include a 600-hour internship with 240 face-to-face client contact hours.
  • Find a supervisor for supervised work experience and complete a Supervisory Contract agreement
  • Complete an application
  • Pay $65 application fee
  • Complete a National Practitioners Data Bank (NPDB) self-query

To qualify for an LPC candidates must already hold an LPC Resident license and must:

  • Complete 3,400 of supervised work experience. 2,000 hours must be face-to-face client contact. Hours completed as part of the master’s internship in excess of the 600 required hours may be counted, up to 300 hours. There must be 200 hours of supervision at a rate no less than one hour of supervision for every 40 hours of work experience. These hours must be completed in no less than 21 months and no more than four years.
  • Pass the NCMHCE
  • Submit a completed application
  • Complete another National Practitioners Data Bank (NPDB) query
  • Pay $175 application fee

LPC Resident licenses expire annually and cost $30 to renew. As part of the renewal, LPC Residents must attest the supervised work experience is still in effect and that they have completed three continuing education hours in ethics.

LPCs must renew their licenses annually online by completing the application and paying the $130 fee.

LPCs are required to complete 20 hours in continuing education, two of which must be in ethics. LPCs are not required to submit this information to the board; however, random audits are performed so counselors must keep careful records.

School Counseling Licenses in Virginia

Licensing AuthorityEligibility & DetailsRenewal Requirements
Virginia Department of Education

The Virginia Department of Education issues educator licenses with a school counseling endorsement.

The requirements for the provisional license and endorsement are:

  • Have two years of full time work experience as as school counselor or teacher
  • Have a master’s from an approved school counselor program or have a master’s in school counseling from a regionally accredited program (with a 100-hour internship) and complete an approved school counselor preparation program
  • Submit a completed application
  • Pay an application fee
  • Complete Dyslexia Awareness Training
  • Complete Child Abuse and Neglect Recognition and Intervention Training
  • Have current CPR certification

Provisional educator licenses with a school counselor endorsement may not be renewed. Professional licenses are valid for five years.

To renew, school counselors must:

  • Submit a completed renewal application
  • Pay $50 application fee
  • Complete Dyslexia Awareness Training
  • Complete Child Abuse and Neglect Recognition and Intervention Training
  • Have current CPR certification
  • Complete training in the recognition of mental health disorder and behavioral distress, including depression, trauma, violence, youth suicide, and substance abuse
  • Earn 180 Professional Development Points

Substance Abuse Counseling Licenses in Virginia

Licensing AuthorityEligibility & DetailsRenewal Requirements

Virginia Department of Health Professions Board of Counseling

The Virginia Department of Health Professions Board of Counseling issues Certified Substance Abuse Counselor (CSAC) and Certified Substance Abuse Counselor Assistant (CSAC-A) credentials to substance abuse counselors.

CSAC-A credential candidates must:

  • Graduate from high school or a have a GED
  • Complete 120 hours of education in substance abuse counseling in 13 specific areas
  • Have 180 hours of supervised work experience with clients who have a substance use disorder
  • Submit a completed application
  • Pay $115 license fee
  • Pass the Virginia State Constructed CSAC-A exam

CSAC credential candidates must:

  • Complete a bachelor’s degree
  • Submit a completed application
  • Pay $65 application fee, $115 license fee, and $175 exam fee
  • Pass the Virginia State NCAC Level I exam
  • Have the Verification of Supervision form submitted by each supervisor, which verifies a total of 100 hours of supervision, 2,000 hours of work experience in substance abuse, and 160 hours of experimental tasks
  • Complete 240 hours of education in substance abuse counseling in 13 specific areas

Substance abuse counselor licenses in Virginia expire annually on June 30th. CSAC renewal fees are $65 and CSAC-A fees are $50.

CSACs are required to complete 10 hours of continuing education each year and CSAC-As are required to complete only five.

Rehabilitation Counseling Licenses in Virginia

Licensing AuthorityEligibility & DetailsRenewal Requirements

Virginia Board of Counseling

Rehabilitation counselors in Virginia are credentialed as Licensed Professional Counselors (LPCs) or Licensed Professional Counselor – Residents (LPC Residents).

LPC Resident license candidates must:

  • Graduate from a CACREP or CORE accredited master’s in counseling program. If the program has neither accreditation, it must be regionally accredited and contain 13 core content areas. All programs must contain a minimum of 60 semester-credits (or 90 quarter-credits) and include a 600-hour internship with 240 face-to-face client contact hours.
  • Find a supervisor for supervised work experience and complete a Supervisory Contract agreement
  • Complete an application
  • Pay $65 application fee
  • Complete a National Practitioners Data Bank (NPDB) self-query

To qualify for licensure as an LPC, candidates must already hold an LPC Resident license and must:

  • Complete 3,400 hours of supervised work experience. 2,000 hours must be face-to-face client contact. Hours completed as part of the master’s internship in excess of the 600 required hours may be counted, up to 300 hours. There must be 200 hours of supervision at a rate no less than one hour of supervision for every 40 hours of work experience. These hours must be completed in no less than 21 months and no more than four years.
  • Pass the NCMHCE
  • Submit a completed application
  • Complete another National Practitioners Data Bank (NPDB) query
  • Pay $175 application fee

LPC Resident licenses expire annually and cost $30 to renew. As part of the renewal, LPC Residents must attest the supervised work experience is still in effect and that they have completed three continuing education hours in ethics.

LPCs must renew their licenses annually online by completing the application and paying the $130 fee.

LPCs are required to complete 20 hours in continuing education, two of which must be in ethics. LPCs are not required to submit this information to the board; however, random audits are performed so counselors must keep careful records.

Applied Behavioral Analysis (ABA) Licenses in Virginia

Licensing AuthorityEligibility & DetailsRenewal Requirements
Virginia Board of Medicine

The Virginia Board of Medicine licenses Board Certified Behavior Analysts and Assistant Behavior Analysts.

Requirements for licensure are:


  • Submit an online application

  • Hold either a BCBA or BCaBA national certification

  • Pay a $130 application fee for a behavior analyst license or a $70 fee for the assistant behavior analyst license

  • Complete an NPDB Self Query


Behavior analyst licenses issued in Virginia must be renewed biennially on odd-numbered years during the license holder’s birth month. Behavior analyst license renewal fees are $135, and assistant behavior analyst license renewal fees are $70.

To renew, applicants must also complete continuing education hours. Thirty-two hours of continuing education are required for behavior analysts and assistant behavior must complete 20. Four of those hours must be in ethics.

Marriage and Family Therapy Licenses in Virginia

Licensing AuthorityEligibility & DetailsRenewal Requirements
Virginia Board of Counseling

The Virginia Board of Counseling credentials Licensed Marriage and Family Therapists (LMFT) and Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist Residents (LMFT Resident)

LMFT Resident candidates must:

  • Graduate from a regionally accredited marriage and family therapy master’s program of at least 60 semester- (or 90 quarter-credits), including a 600-hour internship
  • Find a supervisor for supervised work experience and complete a Supervisory Contract agreement
  • Complete an application
  • Pay $65 application fee
  • Complete a National Practitioners Data Bank (NPDB) self-query

Full LMFT candidates must already hold an LMFT Resident license and must:

  • Complete 3,400 of supervised work experience, including no less than one hour of supervision for every 40 hours of work experience (2,000 hours must be face-to-face client contact and 1,000 of those hours must be with couples or families; hours completed as part of the master’s internship in excess of the 600 required hours may be counted, up to 300 hours)
  • Pass the AMFTRB
  • Submit a completed application
  • Complete another National Practitioners Data Bank (NPDB) query
  • Pay $175 application fee

LMFT Resident licenses expire annually and cost $30 to renew.

As part of the renewal, LMFT Residents must attest that their supervised work experience is still in effect and that they have completed three continuing education hours in ethics.

LMFTs must renew their licenses online annually by completing the application and paying the $130 fee.

LMFTs are required to complete 20 hours in continuing education, two of which must be in ethics. LMFTs are not required to submit this information to the board; however, random audits are performed, so counselors must keep careful records.

Child (Pediatric) Behavioral Therapy Licenses in Virginia

Licensing AuthorityEligibility & DetailsRenewal Requirements

Virginia Board of Counseling

Child therapists in Virginia are credentialed as Licensed Professional Counselors (LPCs) or Licensed Professional Counselor – Residents (LPC Residents).

LPC Resident license candidates must:


  • Graduate from a CACREP or CORE accredited master’s in counseling program. If the program has neither accreditation, it must be regionally accredited and contain 13 core content areas. All programs must contain a minimum of 60 semester-credits (or 90 quarter-credits) and include a 600-hour internship with 240 face-to-face client contact hours.

  • Find a supervisor for supervised work experience and complete a Supervisory Contract agreement

  • Complete an application

  • Pay a $65 application fee

  • Complete a National Practitioners Data Bank (NPDB) self-query

To qualify for as an LPC candidates must already hold an LPC Resident license and must:


  • Complete 3,400 hours of supervised work experience. 2,000 hours must be face-to-face client contact. Hours completed as part of the master’s internship over the 600 required hours may be counted, up to 300 hours. There must be 200 hours of supervision at a rate no less than one hour of supervision for every 40 hours of work experience. These hours must be completed in no less than 21 months and no more than four years.

  • Pass the NCMHCE

  • Submit a completed application

  • Complete another National Practitioners Data Bank (NPDB) query

  • Pay the $175 application fee

LPC Resident licenses expire annually and cost $30 to renew. As part of the renewal, LPC Residents must attest the supervised work experience is still in effect and that they have completed three continuing education hours in ethics.

LPCs must renew their licenses annually online by completing the application and paying the $130 fee.

LPCs must complete 20 hours in continuing education, two of which must be in ethics. LPCs are not required to submit this information to the board; however, random audits are performed so counselors must keep careful records.

Kimmy Gustafson

Kimmy Gustafson

Writer

At CounselingSchools.com, Kimmy Gustafson’s expertly crafted articles delve into the world of counseling and mental health, providing valuable insights and guidance to readers since 2020. In addition to feature pieces and interviews, she keeps the state licensing tables current. Kimmy has been a freelance writer for more than a decade, writing hundreds of articles on a wide variety of topics such as startups, nonprofits, healthcare, kiteboarding, the outdoors, and higher education. She is passionate about seeing the world and has traveled to over 27 countries. She holds a bachelor’s degree in journalism from the University of Oregon. When not working, she can be found outdoors, parenting, kiteboarding, or cooking.

Vanessa Salvia

Vanessa Salvia

Writer

Vanessa Salvia is an Oregon-based freelance writer and editor with a bachelor’s degree in chemistry. As fun as rigorous studies in math and science were, Vanessa took an independent path and developed a prolific career covering lifestyle and healthcare topics for magazines and newspapers, important industries such as concrete construction and building waterproofing, and even hard science. You can get in touch at Sage Media and Marketing.